MIA interview

LEFT OF THE DIAL ISSUE #3 (sometime around 2001)

MIA interview by Matt Van Mantgem

While the worldwide punk scene that exploded in the 1970s has been lauded, usually the early 80s are dismissed as being about brainless thugs from the suburbs. While I didn't crash at the Zero, and party at the Masque, I did sing at Fender's Ballroom, dance at Safari Sam's, hang out at Godzilla's, and laugh at the Cuckoos Nest. One band in the thick of that scene was M.I.A. In that era of Gary Tovar's Goldenvoice productions, M.I.A. were seemingly everywhere. They've been gone now for many years, and much of the recordings are even out of print, but thanks the the Internet (www.miaband.com), and the Lost Boys compilation on Alternative Tentacles, the excellent music they produced is still available. Catch up with Nick Adams, a humble, but underrated guitar player who played the soundtrack to my lost youth.

M.I.A. came out of the Las Vegas scene around 1980. The scenes in New York, London and Los Angeles are well documented, and the history well preserved. But what was it like to be a punk in Las Vegas in 1979? Did you feel like you had an independent thing going on, or were you more following what was going on in the larger scenes?

My recollection is that while we were in Vegas we were following the larger scenes, especially the LA scene. There really weren't many punks around at the time, and most of the shows were backyard parties. It was a real small scene.

My recollection of Los Angeles from about that time is similar. Most of us in the suburbs were just following what was happening in Hollywood, and some of us were even starting a kind of "cult" to Darby Crash, so I'm thinking it was doubly so all the way out in Vegas - a sense of complete isolation, like you're really "doing your own thing." Was it something like that, or was it more just waiting for the latest development from the coast?

Kind of a tough question. The first punk show I attended that I didn't play at was Blag Flag at the Santa Monica Civic, and I hadn't yet played any shows outside of Vegas. It was an eye-opener to say the least. There were a lot of punks there, a lot of energy. Personally, I was a late-comer to the Vegas punk scene, so I missed some of the earliest shows in Vegas by the out-of-town bands. I think the Simpletones played there in '79, for instance. I think Mike and Chris had been to shows in California, and I remember Mike telling me about Darby's death, news from the latest Flipside. The first time I met The Swell (M.I.A. before I joined), they had a rehearsal space next to mine. There was a giant Union Jack painted across one entire wall, and I remember the energy of the music really struck me. I had heard punk rock before, but never live. It was so raw and powerful. And there was an attitude that was alluringly dangerous. Hard to explain, but it was cool. Mike asked me to jam with them, and I jumped at the chance. Mike turned me on to a lot of punk music.

Later, M.I.A. was based around Orange County, and shared bills with most, if not all the bands that are remembered for the "OC" scene. What prompted the move there, and how do you see M.I.A. as fitting into that scene?

For personal reasons in January of '81 I left the band and moved to San Diego. It had nothing to do with the band, I just felt like I had to get out of Vegas. A little later, Mike and Chris moved to OC. I moved there in June and we started playing again. The Cuckoo's Nest was our "school" at the time. It was just an awesome, a little scary and dangerous, a murky, beer-soaked dive.

We saw all of the best bands of the time play there, and a lot of bands no one remembers. Just watching Greg Hetson (Circle Jerks) play was, for me, a big influence. Being in the punk scene at that time, and later, was a constant battle for respect. Coming from Vegas, we were outsiders, so it was hard to get any attention or respect. We went into a studio with $300 that bought us six hours of 8-track time and recorded the demo that was released as Last Rites. It's funny, we had to go to Reno to get noticed. Reno had one of the best scenes anywhere.

Would this be the "Skeeno" scene of 7 Seconds fame? If so, were you involved with the whole "Positive Force" thing?

Yeah, it was the Skeeno scene. We gave a tape of our demo to Kevin and he passed it on to Tim Yohannan, who passed it on to Bo Clifford at Bomp who passed it on to Felix at Smoke Seven and before we knew it we had songs on three records. So really we have Kevin to thank. I didn't really consider us to be directly involved with the "Positive Force" or the "Straight Edge" movements, but we played with a lot of those bands. We were a positive band for the most part and I think we drew many of the same people at our shows. Some of those bands had very loyal followings and exerted a lot of influence in the way of behavior and dress. I don't think we ever did that.

That OC scene, many would contend, has given birth to the late '90s "Pop Punk" scene. Since M.I.A. had a sound that was melodic, and while aggressive and fast, never really became "thrash," I wonder what you think of the Blink 182s and Offsprings of the world? Also, while you've made it clear that there is no planned reunion, do you think that M.I.A. would have a place on, say, a Warped Tour?

Blink 182 and Offspring? Well I like some of their music, and I say more power to 'em. They exist in a completely different milieu, though. I mean, I don't think we ever played to more than 1000 people, maybe 2000 tops. And we sold maybe 20-30,000 records total in our career. And we're talking vinyl. Those bands are firmly in the mainstream with lots more resources in production, performing, etc., and selling MILLIONS of albums. There are other bands that came after us that were more pop-punk oriented, like Big Drill Car. Those guys would probably be big if they were still around. For us to go on a Warped Tour, well that would be warped. I can't even imagine it.

There's a lot of progression between records with M.I.A. Murder in a Foreign Place seems like a very political, and very Punk record, while Notes From the Underground has more personal themes, and seems more post-punk with different song structures, and less reliance on loud/fast, and After the Fact seems even more concerned with personal relationships, and has even less of the hard and fast songs. Was there a reason for this?

I think it was a reflection of the progression of our tastes and talents. The Last Rites disc was very punk-influenced. It was what we were listening to. When M.I.A. took an amicable break in '81-'82, Paul and I started a punk/funk band with an artist/sax player named Bad Otis Link. It was a very free-form band, we all sang, and we played shows with some of the "alternative" punk bands like the Minutemen and the meat Puppets, but also with the likes of DOA, Social Distortion and Circle Jerks. I think when we got back into M.I.A. for the Murder record we were listening to everything from Motown, blues and jazz to the Birthday Party, Bauhaus and Angry Samoans. It might not be something you would pick up on listening to our music, but our musical influences became very wide. The song "Murder in a Foreign Place" was written while I was really into Tom Waits' Swordfishtrombones album. Is it punk? Well, maybe the lyrics. "Las Vegas" was a cover tune lifted and twisted off a Petula Clark album. Mike came up with the good arrangement. One of the best songs, "Used to Know Me," is in 7/8 time, not exactly your standard punk time signature. Notes From the Underground could have been a great record, but we had a lot of turmoil making it. Lots of pressure from inside and outside the band, and we made some bad decisions. We actually broke up while recording it. For me it's not a happy record. I much prefer the 4-track demo versions of some of that album's songs that appear on Lost Boys. I wasn't involved in After the Fact, except maybe as fertilizer and fodder for some of the songs (Mike would probably tell you that it's my imagination). It is a really good record, though, and I think Mike really grew as a songwriter and came into his own.

Wow! No offense, but I never would have guessed about the Tom Waits and Petula Clark influences! I'm of the opinion, though, that the music M.I.A. made was really musically sophisticated, much more so than bands considered more mainstream. Is there anything left in the vaults then? Any surprises?

Well, you should try to find the Petula Clark version of that song. It is classic Rat Pack-era Vegas material. When we toured across the country supporting the Murder record, we listened to Steel Pulse's True Democracy non-stop so we had to write a reggae tune. It was pretty decent, but we never performed it very well. And when we were stuck in Baltimore for a week there were some kids in the 'hood, brak dancers, who were very impressed that we had a Grandmaster Flash tape; instant friends. I think the attitude that defined our time, the "punk" attitude, is found in music all through history, sometimes it just takes a while to learn that. I don't think there are any more surprises from the vault, but you never know.

I remember somebody saying that "M.I.A." stood for "Mike In Action," so was that the case? Was it Mike's baby, and he felt that it should be concerned with personal stuff, or was it more a case of wanting to say other things besides commentary on issues of the day with the whole band? In other words, did everybody feel like they were growing out of their earlier stuff, or was it less progression, and more just a change?

We used to make up stuff like that because people would ask us what M.I.A. meant, like it had to mean something other than the obvious! But Mike was definitely the driving force of the band. He's a really complex guy, one of the most talented and artistic people that I know. He can be difficult to get along with, because his personality is so strong, but I think that's what makes his songwriting great. I think if you look at Mike's songs on the whole, you'll find that they are more personal, even the stuff on Last Rites and Murder. He just got better over time, in fact some of his post-M.I.A. stuff is really great. In my opinion it's the personal stuff that stands the test of time. I think we all had strong contributions in the band, though.

Is there anything you want to convey to people who might discover M.I.A. today? I believe the music holds up, and it continues to inspire me, but do you think it does as well?

Does the music hold up? It's hard for me to say. We never were and never will be a huge influence on the music scene. We were there, though. If anything, Lost Boys is a document of that fact, and I would encourage listeners to treat it as such.

The Lost Boys release on Alternative Tentacles has come out years after you've all moved on to other projects, so how did that come about?

A few years ago punk was making a comeback. There was some interest in some of the older bands, ad we were contacted by a couple of different labels about re-releasing the material. We just didn't find anyone to work with that we felt comfortable with, so we shelved it. A while later AT called, and they had been very fair to us in the past. Mike didn't really want to put in some of the Last Rites and other stuff on Lost Boys because he felt it wasn't our best music. And while I agreed, I felt that it might still be appreciated by students of the old school, and for that reason I thought it was important. For instance, "'Tomic Bomb" is, to me, a classic. I wish we had a great recording of it, but we don't. The only way anyone would ever hear it was if we put a substandard recording of a substandard performance on Lost Boys. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know. If we only put our best songs on it, it would be a five song compilation. Mike was a good sport about it.

Five songs? I don't think so. I think it was Tom Waits who said something about music sounding best when played on a burnt out speaker half a block away. I don't mid twisting my ear to try to hear music if it's really good, and that's a really good song. Don't you think that you guys had an influence on what came later? I really think that you did, and I'd think that people would be well advised to give your stuff a listen, even if it's a "substandard" recording. But, was that a big difficulty for you? I think that people have forgotten just how difficult it was to book recording time, and get a decent recording "back in the day." Could you describe how the recording process went for you?

Recording was always a big expense. Being in a band period is a big expense. There's always equipment to buy, drum sticks, guitar strings. I think we got lucky when we first went into the studio. We found a local studio, JEL, where this guy Bill Trousdale was an engineer. We told him we wanted to just put down as many songs as we could live, and go back and do overdubs if we had time left. I don't think he had ever worked with a punk band before. I remember he made my guitar sound like that 70s band Boston and we had to tell him to back off the Boston shit. But he was great, and he made us sound pretty darn good on the Last Rites stuff, all done in just a few hours. I remember they had a booth with a card table, a chair, a set of headphones and a script. It was where Mel Blance was recording voices for Bugs Bunny cartoons! So I guess Bill really had to switch gears when we came in. Before we recorded Murder we went into an 8-track studio and made a tape that just stunk. Basically we got what we paid for. With the Murder record we took a little more time, maybe over-produced it a bit. Bill was at the controls again. Mike and I were listening to it while working on Lost Boys, and we were trying to figure out how to take some of that reverb off. Notes From the Underground, as I said before, was a total disaster. We had a big-name producer who didn't really like the band, didn't put out much effort, and it showed. Not much love in that recording. We got slammed back then and the material still gets slammed in reviews of Lost Boys, but I think it is some of our best stuff. Now I can sit here and pound out tunes on my computer and they sound great. Mulit-track, 16-bit with effects. The change in technology is just amazing......